live from the essence fest in new orleans, this is "hardball." good afternoon. i'm ed schultz live in new orleans here on msnbc for a second-degree murder charge for george zimmerman.

zimmerman pleaded not guilty claiming self-defense. a key witness, trayvon martin's mother took the stand today along with trayvon's -- and testimony disrupted on several occasions as the court grappled with issues related to its own evidence lock perp for the latest, live at the courthouse, give you the sequence of the events today? >> reporter: you just mentioned the evidence. that held up court for an hour. whoever had the key to that evidence locker couldn't find them. we had to call a lock smith to get the evidence locker reopened. sybrina fulton, you mentioned, the first witness today. her testimony interrupt because they needed to get some evidence out. the most important piece of testimony from fulton this morning was the fact that she said, she testified that the

screaming heard in the background of one of those 911 calls was in fact that of her son, trayvon martin's. she also testified that the 17-year-old was right-handed. that would be important later in the day. then came trayvon's older brother. he testified that he also recognized the voice of one of those 911 calls as that of his brother's, but he also acknowledged that he previously told a reporter here in florida that he couldn't be sure. that he wasn't certain that it was his brother's. then after those two family members testified, dr shipley took the stand, the medical examiner who we'll be hearing from again in a few moments, that's where they left off, his examination. he basically testified, starting off saying trayvon martin was 5'11", 158 pounds, shot by a

single gunspot wound to the chest. he testified trayvon martin was alive somewhere between one and ten minutes after that initial shot. he went on to say there were no injuries to trayvon martin's right hand. again, keep in mind, sybrina fulton testified an hour earlier her son was right-handed. no injuries to the right hand and no blood found on oather of the two hands. he also said that the abrasion, the two abrasions on trayvon martin's left hand, he said those abrasions could have very well have happened before the altercation with george zimmerman. the doctor testified that the 17-year-old was shot at intermediate range. could have been up to four feet. he said that the muzzle of that .9 millimeter gun was not pressed directly against the chest, but it was--it was close. and then -- this was very interesting, chris.

at one point the doctor said his heart was still beating. he was alive. he was still in pain. immediately after the doctor said that, there was an objection from the defense, there was a side bar. the judge sustained that objection. not clear at this point what the instruction will be with regards to the jury on that testimony. that's the latest from here in sanford, florida. the doctor expected to take the stand here in just -- any moment at this point, and more cross-examination, more vigorous cross-examination. >> okay. thank you. as always, craig melvin down at the courthouse. let's bring in msnbc legal analyst lisa bloom and defense lawyer davis. lisa, from what you see this morning, what was important to the trial and the testimony of trayvon's mother, to the jury? >> first of all, she was a very poised, dignified witness. unshakable on cross-examination. really, a model witness.

she testified that was trayvon martin screaming out for help. she maintained it from the beginning, was unshakable and that was strong testimony for the prosecution. >> so if you're the defense attorney here, how do you deal with that in the coming days? how do you deal with the emotional power punch, really, of the mother's testimony backed up by the brother to some extent? that that's the sound of her son's voice? >> well, the defense attorney did all he could do. be very gentle and just to plant the seed. the seed he tried to plant was that she would have to hope it was trayvon, because if it wasn't, then trayvon would have been the wrongdoer, and that that would create a very negative outcome for her family. of course, she denied that. she said i wasn't hoping. that's what i heard.

i heard trayvon martin screaming. this is not about hope. that's where the defense is going with this. that that's the conclusion the family had to draw to be able to handle their grief after this shooting. >> let's take a look at it right now when trayvon's mother sybrina fulton took the stand. the court -- let's move the prompter here. i want to play a recording of that. >> -- ma'am. >> 911. police, fire and medical. >> there's someone screaming outside. >> okay. what's the address there? >> 1211 -- >> okay, and is it a male or female? >> it sounds like a male. >> and you don't know why? >> i don't know why. i think they're -- i don't know. >> send someone now. >> does he look hurt? >> i can't see him.

i don't want to go out there. i don't know what's going on. >> help! >> he's yelling help? >> yes. >> what is your -- [ inaudible ]. >> a gunshot. >> you just heard gunshots. >> yes. >> ma'am, that streaming or yelling, do you recognize that? >> yes. >> and who do you recognize that to be, ma'am? >> trayvon benjamin martin. >> what you just saw, the voice screaming for help, the mother said, is in fact her son. this is an exchange she had with mark o'mara right afterwards. >> i heard my son screaming. >> the only alternative, would you agree? if it was not your son screaming, that it would be george zimmerman, correct? >> objection. this is speculation. >> sustained.

>> you certainly -- had to hope that was your son screaming, even before you heard it. correct? >> i didn't hope for anything. i just simply listened to the tape. >> uh-huh. >> and in your mind as his mother, there was no doubt whatsoever that it was him screaming. correct? >> absolutely. >> what a moment in the trial there. joe davis, let me ask you about this approach by mark o'mara, the defense attorney there. did he make a mistake there by seeming to underestimate the slidty, the power of the mother's ability to the respond to him where he suggested, maybe coaxed is the right word, saying that she hoped it was her son's voice? it made him the good guy rather than someone involved in a very tight fight with the defendant now? >> well, contribution i think

mr. o'mara in this dhis duty as defense attorney did what he had to do, zealously and vigorously represent his clinent, mr. zimmerman. now, how he went about it was probably the most professional and proficient way that he could under the circumstances. however, the prosecution's witness, ms. fulton, basically told everyone in the whole wide world, i'm a mother. i know when my son is screaming, crying, and uttering things, and i heard it, and that's what i'm testifying to. >> let me go back to lisa on this point. it seems to me if the defense team now recognizes that the mother's testimony was powerful, do they now seek to extended time between today, friday the 5th, and when they have the jury actually deliberating? it seems to me they'd want that emotional impact to lessen way long defense effort?

even if you don't have much to show, you just want time to pass. am i right or wrong? >> well, you may be right about that, but i think the defense is going to put on a number of witnesses. probably law enforcement, the initial police officers who said, hey, this is self-defense. we don't think he should be charged. we may hear from george zimmerman's family members saying, you know what? that's george zimmerman screaming for help on that 911 call. this case is not over by any means. this was one very powerful witness for the prosecution but that's over 30 so far and a number more for the defense. >> did you think that the prosecution has made its points on two fronts? demonstrated george zimmerman's depraved behavior here, depraved attitude, approach, and knock down this self-defense argument so far? >> well, i certainly will say that the prosecution has

attempted to do so, but a lot of the times, and everyone has acknowledged this, the prosecution witnesses have done well for the defense. for instance, when professor carter, i want to call him that, the young man who taught george zimmerman at the university, at the college, and so forth about things, about stand your ground and self-defense and so forth. i mean, he greeted him way smile. he personalized george zimmerman and so forth. i mean, he humanized george zimmerman in front of the jury. so i think the prosecution has done the best -- you know, the best that its done under the circumstances, but i'm not so certain that they have as a result shown a depraved mind. i think the question becomes for the jury whether or not mr. zimmerman as concealed weapons

holder acted responsibly, and i think that the prosecution might want to characterize that in their summation in their closing, because that's what might be at issue for those six jurors. lisa, same question. i say when they bring in the brother's testimony here. trayvon martin's brother. he testified also that he recognized his brother's voice on that 911 call, and my quirks quirks -- question, i guess, does that undermined -- by the fact when he spoke to police, he wasn't sure? >> to some extent, yes. the mother was clearly much stronger, because she knew immediately that was her son, identified it that way and stuck to it. in regards to the depraved mind. the prosecution has george zimmerman on the police dispatcher, using profanity, talking about trayvon martin a complete stranger who had every right to be there walking down the street.

and zimmerman calls him an a-hole, an f-ing punk. and months later, after time to reflect, he says the killing was god's plan. that's such a discord nant note to the hear from him. an attorney sitting next to him, time to prepare for the interview and shows no compassion for trayvon martin or his family. the jury could put all that together and say this guy did it whip a depraved mind if they don't buy the self-defense theory offered by the defense. >> lisa bloom. thank you. be right back. please, stay with us, all of you. coming right back with the trial of george zimmerman which is about to go from -- well, from prosecution to defense. anyway, we'll be right back. this is "hardball" from the essence festival in new orleans. the place for politics tonight. the usual, bob? not today. [ male announcer ] bob has afib: atrial fibrillation not caused by a heart valve problem, a condition that puts him at greater risk for a stroke. [ gps ] turn left.

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we're back from new orleans at the convention center. of course, the essence festival, a celebratory mood here, of course, everyone's interested in this trial here, the trial of george zimmerman, involving the loss of life of trayvon martin. we're here with lisa bloom and attorney davis. i want to do a little previewing now of the defense. will there be a defense? first of all to you, lisa. >> i think there will. mark o'mara doesn't prepare to put on the defendant.

somebody who will come forward and say, under these facts, the use of force was appropriate. the judge hasn't rule on that yet. i don't know if that expert will testify. we may hear from george zimmerman's family saying that's his voice screaming out on that 911 call, and we may hear from law enforcement. he initially decided there was no case here. they believed george zimmerman's story. it took 44 days and a ground swell of public support, 2 million people signing a petition and a lot of media attention to get these charges filed. i expect some of that to come out in the defense case, chris. >> do you think an effort he had no racial bias? his past experience with people of different ethnic and racial backgrounds doesn't display any racial point of view in terms of, well, the word is depraved? we've been using that word here in terms of the law. would you have to sort of get that out of the picture for -- for an acquittal?

>> right. normally that kind of general character evidence is not admissib admissible. i would not expect to hear that. for the prosecution, there was a cousin who had some unkind things to say about george zimmerman and having negative racial views. that person has not testified. so if that person doesn't testify, i don't expect to hear the opposite of that for the defense, that he was not a racist, that he was open-minded, had a racially diverse family. yop think the judge will allow it in on either side. >> joe davis, same question to you. would you, if you were the defense attorney, and you're skilled in this matter, would you sort of fortify the idea, this is not a bad person when it comes to race generally? or what would you do with that question, or thieve alone? >> absolutely. i think the best way to do it is to generally humanize him. in a non-racial way. again, i believe if i'm not mistaken, that the terms of the profiles issue, the judge ruled that you were not use race in

terms of the introduction of any profile evidence. so i would also think that, you know, and it makes sense, that, you are know, if you can't overtly use race in trying to humanize the defendant, mr. zimmerman. but i believe that mr. o'mara and mr. west are definitely going to do what they have to do to gnome defend him zealously, vigorously, but also humanize him and point to things to show that he's a nice guy. he's likable. what you've heard should be believable. in other words, the things that you've heard positively about him, that's what they're supposed to do, and they are ethically bound to do that. >> okay, great. let's go back -- hold on folks. back down to craig melvin with the latest. what's happening in the trial, craig? >> reporter: chris, you know, this is actually the fourth or fifth sidebar we've seen today, which is fairly unusual. judge nelson has really been keeping the proceedings moving along at quite the clip. right now we are told that

before lunch, there was -- the attorneys for the defense, the attorneys for the prosecution, they were going back forth over the doctor's notes related to the autopsy and the defense asked to see those notes. they asked first to make a copy of the notes. the judge said they would look at notes, make their own notes off those notes. they had an hour to do that over lunch, but apparently this is related to doctor shipley's notes. those autopsy notes. again, this has been about 20, 25-minute sidebar so far, which is the longest of the day. >> okay. thanks so much. we're going to be back from the essence festival down here in new orleans after this. this is "hardball," of course, the place for politics.

welcome back to "hardball," in time for the sideshow. turns out mitt romney's record of winning elections is worse than we thought. on the eve of the 2011 election, interesting about the romney family. in 2010 they took an internal family vote whether mitt should run. kirding to the huffington post which saw an early copy, 10-2 he should not. one of the family members voting against, romney himself. the author, romney's cold feet had to do with an assessment where the republican party was at the time. "winning as a moderate from massachusetts who happened to be mormon was always going to be difficult. a lot of the thinking on's part of my brothers and dad was, i'm not sure i can win a primary

given those dynamics. tag tag romney said he was looking for excuses to guess out of it." his father. romney would have made a better president, he, romney, would gladly have stepped a side, according to the author. what changed romney's mind? that's the question. he didn't think fellow republican contenders were up for the job. "i didn't think any of them hl a good chance of defeating the president. in some case i thought they lacked the experience and perspective to do what was essential to get the country on track." well, of course, romney was overestimating his own ability of defeating the president. maybe he should have listenened to the results of the romney family vote. finally, during an appearance on bravo's "watch what happens" live with andy cohen here. cher gave msnbc a bit of an endorsement. that came as a surprise to someone else that happened to be on the set. take a look at the fun. are you still a big cnn and c-span viewer? >> yes, but i also -- i'm

also -- split my time between msnbc. >> oh! >> okay. and he's down. >> that was anderson cooper hitting the deck there. that's "hardball" for now. coming up next, "your business" with j.j. ramberg. [ male

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welcome to main street usa. we're in galina, illinois, a town that had to re-invent itself many times. we're talking to small business owners to find out what they're doing to keep their community and their businesses thriving. that's coming up next on "your business." small businesses are revitalizing the economy. an american express open is here to help. that's why we are proud to present "your business" on ms c msnbc.